1. Exquisite Tweets from @yoz, @tomcoates, @bobbie, @annapickard, @r4isstatic

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    I could go on about problems with "Sherlock" but this Guardian piece says it *so* much better:
    m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/… /cc @Zoonie @tomcoates

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    yoz

    Yoz Grahame

  2. @yoz @Zoonie I'm going to sound appalling here, but it's interesting to me that the article itself and the article quoted disagree so much.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

  3. @tomcoates I think I'm missing one of the two articles you're talking about, but don't know which...

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    yoz

    Yoz Grahame

  4. @yoz @Zoonie I've noticed this more in gender debates than sexuality ones. I'm not sure what to make of it.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz They agree that it's sexist, and on a few of the reasons. Then there's this huge tract of disagreement too that the guardian skips over

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz It reminds me a bit of the arguments over whether Harry Potter was sexist because Hermione wasn't the star.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz She absolutely positively *could* have been the star, but she's also a hard-working, clever, politically active, brilliant woman.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz In a space where gay people are often happy if they're not ultra camp or the coded villain in movies, it can get quite confusing.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz Again - not to say that Sherlock wasn't sexist, because the decision in the first place to make her a sex worker was just unnecessary.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

  5. @tomcoates They all agree that the modern version makes Adler more disempowered & male-dependent than the *Victorian* original.

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    yoz

    Yoz Grahame

    @tomcoates If it was a one-off, then OK; unfortunately this stuff threads through all of Moffat's recent work. Once you start noticing it...

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    yoz

    Yoz Grahame

  6. @yoz I honestly think that the few egregious examples which he has provided have made people over-read some of the rest though.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

  7. @tomcoates Really? I see them totally agreeing on that: 1) her emotional weakness betraying her 2) having Holmes save her at the very end

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    yoz

    Yoz Grahame

  8. @yoz I guess I'm trying to work out where the balance point is - exactly how sexist *is* he? More than we'd like and less than people think?

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz Course in the film, she's also under the guidance of Moriarty and just gets killed.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz But I mean, that conversation with Watson is interesting there. They *both* love him, but neither wants to shag him.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

  9. @tomcoates Good question. Dear (off the top of my head) @naomialderman & @charliejane: Is Moffat's work more sexist than other male writers?

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    yoz

    Yoz Grahame

  10. @yoz And having Holmes rescue her at the end, well, if you're looking for a good positive happy twist at the end, then it's not a bad one.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz Those bits, honestly, don't worry me. The bits that worry me are the bits where she only has power as a sex worker and gets naked a lot

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz @naomialderman @charliejane That's not quite the question I'd have asked. It's where is he effectively pro-feminist.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

  11. @tomcoates Disagree - I found it less satisfying, having her enigma/power fully unravelled so fast. She was more interesting before.

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    yoz

    Yoz Grahame

  12. @yoz Example - the recent Christmas episode. Personally, its rather tepid mother/nature/power rang false to me, but she's still the power.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  18. @tomcoates @yoz I don't think that means much: it's possible to be both reverent and sexist at the same time. Cf religions of many stripes.

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    bobbie

    bobbie

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  20. @bobbiejohnson @yoz Again, no one's denying he does sexist things, but the current debate is either/or - is he sexist or not.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @bobbiejohnson @yoz I'm looking for nuance. I want to know whether anything he does is *non*-sexist. How imbalanced is he?

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  23. @tomcoates @bobbiejohnson @yoz Hey, bobbie, if you happen to be looking at the twitters, can I have a cup of raspberry tea when you come up?

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    @tomcoates @bobbiejohnson @yoz I'm not sure why I cc'ed you all one that. Let's imagine it was an ironic comment on sexism.

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  24. @tomcoates Nah, not playing that game: keeping score is a fool's errand. Moral peccadilloes don't destroy the intrinsic value of art...

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    bobbie

    bobbie

    @tomcoates ...so we don't have to come up with excuses or reasons to help artists like vault our personal thresholds. It is what it is.

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    bobbie

    bobbie

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  26. @tomcoates And finally... RT @naomialderman: this may put it in context: scotsman.com/news/time_lad_… "Women are needy", S Moffatt.

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    yoz

    Yoz Grahame

  27. @yoz @naomialderman Without doubt, I'm aware of Moffatt's stupid public statements. And he's undeniably sexist at times.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @yoz @naomialderman My sole question here is whether or not we now read every female character in the light of that clumsiness.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  29. @yoz @naomialderman And ignore those things he does that *are* positive.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  31. @tomcoates @yoz @naomialderman we don't have to, but it's little surprise that we do. All humans have their tolerances and intolerances.

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    bobbie

    bobbie

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  33. @Zoonie @yoz @naomialderman I think all you have to do is look at the Twilight books to see that female writers aren't necessarily pro-woman

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  37. @naomialderman @yoz Definitely agree with the womb power one. But still think River and Amy are strong female characters.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  39. @naomialderman I mean, the show, in a way, is about the impact an amazing alien man has on the people around him. As is Sherlock.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

  40. @naomialderman I find that *very* difficult to understand. Yes, she was a 'kissagram', clearly designed to get the dads at home excited.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  42. @naomialderman But she's also tough, clever, able. If anything Rory is a bit of a fantasy sex object (at least to me)

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  45. @naomialderman I guess my sense of it was that she was a woman who didn't really know what she wanted from her life, and was taking odd jobs

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @naomialderman That she thought it was a laugh, but was also a bit embarrassed about it because she's a normal human.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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  47. @naomialderman Yay! Although one of the things I find most interesting is the asymmetry.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

    @naomialderman And this is a good example. Swap the gender of a character and make them do the same thing. Means totally different things.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

  48. @naomialderman @tomcoates Hey! You guys seem to have reached some kind of point of communal recognition! *Applause*. Are we done?

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  49. @annapickard @naomialderman God, I thought we were having a nice private conversation that no one was reading but us and @yoz.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

  50. @tomcoates @naomialderman No no, the rest of the world that loves you both is here too, silently taking sides.

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  51. @annapickard I think we're totally on the same side! Pro-Who, Anti-Sexism and Grumpy with Moffat when he's behaving badly.

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    tomcoates

    Tom Coates

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