1. Exquisite Tweets from @NewNaratif, @yennikwok, @suryast_, @jamesmassola, @tashny

    snydezCollected by snydez

    This is something we’ve been working on—a style guide for different Southeast Asian names that takes into account what’s more familiar and appropriate for each culture. This is what we have so far:

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    NewNaratif

    New Naratif

  2. As Indonesian elections are approaching, here is a Twitter thread on Southeast Asian names. I have been thinking to do it for a while since many foreign media apply their own default standard of using "family names" (or what they wrongly think is family name) on second mention.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    Family names don't carry as much importance in many Southeast Asian societies, unlike in Western countries, or East Asia. Some people have family names, some don't. Javanese, for example, may have 3-part names, all of which are given names.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    In a number of Southeast Asian countries, people use their given name even in formal context/setting, ditto for second mention, while family names aren't used as much.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    Thai names: eg ex-PM Yingluck Shinawatra. Shinawatra is her family name. But on second mention, it should be Yingluck or Ms Yingluck. Not Shinawatra or Ms Shinawatra. Her brother Thaksin Shinawatra, then Thaksin. Never Shinawatra.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    Like Chinese names, Vietnamese names usually comprise a family name and a two-part given name (in that order). But unlike the Chinese, Vietnamese go with the second part of the given name for second mention. Eg Vietnamese President Nguyen Phu Trong, then Trong. (Never Nguyen).

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    Malay names comprise a given name, followed by a patronymic (the father's name). On second mention, it should be the given name. Eg Mahathir Mohamad, then Mahathir; Wan Azizah Wan Ismail, then Wan Azizah.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    Indonesian names are more tricky because there are so many ethnic groups. Some have family names, some don't. But the general rule of thumb is use the first name, like Malay and Thai names.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    Foreign media are generally good with Thai, Malay and Vietnamese names. But they are a mess in treating Indonesian names. I am not sure why because up to around 2000, they were generally consistent but it became a chaos afterwards.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    For example, Prabowo Subianto, whose full name is Prabowo Subianto Djojohadikusumo -- 1 of the few Javanese who have family name (he doesn't use it though). Up to 2000, in foreign media, he was Prabowo on second mention. Now, it's Subianto, which is his middle name. 😬

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    Joko Widodo -- both are given names; calling him Widodo on second mention is 🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♂️
    Many Indonesian women' names consist of feminine given names. Eg Megawati Sukarnoputri and her daughter Puan Maharani. Calling them Sukarnoputri and Maharani is very awkward.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    And even people from ethnic groups who have family names, like the Bataks, they are still called with their given name. For example, Luhut Pandjaitan, it's Luhut; Hotman Paris Hutapea, it's Hotman.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    There are some exceptions in the first-name rule for Indonesian names. For example, names like Ahmad or Mohamad are never used on second mention. Eg. Mohammad Hatta, then Hatta. And if you call @sahaL_AS or @GunRomli Akhmad or Mohamad respectively, they won't turn their head 😅

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    There are other exceptions -- the Indonesian section of the Asian names style guide I made for @TIME and @nytimes editors & journalists was the longest 😂 (largely thanks to the country's multitude of ethnicities!). But that's a discussion for another day.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

    For a quick, handy guide, I recommend one from @NewNaratif:
    twitter.com/NewNaratif/sta…

    New Naratif @
    This is something we’ve been working on—a style guide for different Southeast Asian names that takes into account what’s more familiar and appropriate for each culture. This is what we have so far:

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

  3. Great thread. Also, that lines up with our style guide advice for Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam etc which is good to know. The use (or non-use, or knowing when to use) Jokowi is a further complication that most papers seem to struggle with 🤦‍♀️ cc @mbachelard

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    jamesmassola

    James Massola

  4. It's quite a dilemma...! Though I would lean toward using Jokowi (or very popular nicknames like Tutut or Titiek).

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

  5. We use Joko “Jokowi” Widodo in the world pages and then Joko at second mention (no honourifics in the world section), Mr Joko in the news pages (where Mr/Mrs/Ms are used) but in features we have the space to say Joko, “widely known as Jokowi”, and can use Jokowi.

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    jamesmassola

    James Massola

  6. And if you are unsure with an Indonesian name, ask the person which name is usually used to call that person.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok

  7. Jho Low is another fun "popularly known as" name.

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    tashny

    Tashny Sukumaran

  8. Missing tweet: 1116222262724550656

  9. What did he tell them?
    Also, sometimes people may ask to use their last name because they think it's more suitable to foreign media, not because they use it on daily basis. So I usually ask, which name people usually use to address them.

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    yennikwok

    Yenni Kwok